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On March 14th, 2008, when Corus Entertainment announced that as of May 20th CHQT Cool 880 would switch from oldies to iNews 880 (all news), many wondered how Rogers Broadcasting Limited would broach the subject when they applied to the CRTC for their own all news licence at hearings held May 27th.

However, what local media watchers weren't expecting was news that Rogers was taking action of some sort against Corus Entertainment regarding similarities between certain iNews 880 elements and Rogers all-news stations already in operation.

CRTC Chairperson Elizabeth Duncan noted the similarities without prompting, and Paul Ski, Chief Executive Officer of Rogers Radio, referred to the actions by Corus as "a preemptive strike or mischief."

As the Cool 880 format switch took place just a week before the hearings began, transcripts reveal that Chairperson Duncan, and Commissioners Rita Cugini and Candice Molnar, weren't aware of the flip to all news when they heard the Rogers application.

However, the Rogers team was aware of it and they obliquely addressed the matter in the presentation, and more specifically, in the reply portions of the hearings.

What follows are excerpts from CRTC transcripts highlighting key elements of the Rogers presentation that set their proposal apart from the current Corus iNews 880 operation and why they have chosen to position themselves on the FM band, among other concerns.

In the reply portion the CRTC (now aware of iNews 880) questions Rogers about the impact of a second all news station in Edmonton.

Note: the italicised line numbers refer to locations in the official record of the hearings which can be read here (presentation) and here (reply) in their entirety at the CRTC web site.

Emphasis (in bold) on this web page has been added by the author of The Last Link.

Presentation

8960 Madam Chair and Members of the Commission, my name is Paul Ski and I am the Chief Executive Officer of Rogers Radio. We are delighted to be here today to present our application for an all news radio station in Edmonton to be known as News 102.3.

8961 I am pleased to have with me today to talk about our all news proposal some true experts in the format.

8962 To my far left is Karen Parsons, News Director 660 News, our all news station in Calgary.

8963 To my immediate left is John Hinnen, Vice-President of News and General Manager of 680 News.

8970 MR. SKI: Madam Chair and Commissioners, our presentation today will focus on three key points. First, why a major metropolitan center like Edmonton needs an all news station. Two, why Rogers would be the best licensee of an all news station. Three, why this application is in the public interest.

8971 One of the attributes of a world-class city is that it has a critical mass of stories and culture that looks to itself for reflection rather than to other media centers. As Alberta's capital city and the economic center of northern Alberta, Edmonton has that foundation of stories and culture that is perfectly suited for an all news station.

8972 Edmonton is one of Canada's fastest growing major metropolitan centers and has an increasing demand for timely, relevant around-the-clock information. Whether it is up to date traffic information in commute times or information on the city's changeable weather conditions, the people of Edmonton will find all news radio an incredible resource as they go about their daily lives.

8973 Industry data shows that Edmonton's economic growth is outperforming that of most other urban centers in recent years and that this healthy economic growth is forecast to continue. The Edmonton radio market has also experienced strong revenue growth and last year was the fastest growing radio market in Canada.

8974 News 102.3 will follow the path of our other all news radio stations and will grow radio revenue in Edmonton by attracting advertisers who have never used radio before.

8975 News 102.3 will be the only all news station in Edmonton that offers live local information 24 hours a day, seven days a week. With reporters on the street around the clock throughout the week and on weekends, residents of Edmonton will know they can rely on News 102.3 to break and track the stories they care about.

8976 With its reliable and consistent news wheel, News 102.3 will offer Edmonton listeners timely news, traffic, weather, sports and business information. News 102.3 will also bring an entirely fresh news voice to the Edmonton market, ensuring comprehensive coverage and reporting on key issues of interest to the people of Edmonton.

8977 Here is how we will do that.

8978 We will have the largest radio newsroom in the city, including 39 fulltime journalists, a dedicated legislative correspondent at the provincial government, a dedicated airborne traffic resource and meteorologist who will ensure up-to-the-minute traffic and weather information and an enhanced online and multiplatform content offering.

8979 MS PARSONS: One of the key things for us whenever we launch an all news services is to explain the format to our listeners. Many think it is just a radio station that does more talk. In reality, all news is as different from talk radio as Country music is from Rock.

8987 News 102.3 will focus more on breaking news than any other station in the market. Unlike news talk stations that normally wait for a newscast at the top or bottom of the hour, we will break in at a moment's notice.

8988 For example, earlier this year when an Air Canada plane was forced to make an emergency landing at the Calgary International Airport injuring 10 people on board, our 660 news team was the first to break the story, arriving on the scene even before the emergency response teams.

8989 As we say, you can read about it tomorrow, see it tonight or hear it now.

8991 When it comes to traffic information, we are constantly looking for ways to improve our traffic surveillance. In fact, we have a number of very exciting developments on that front. We are launching a new service that will allow us to measure the speed of traffic on any road or street in this country by utilizing the speed at which cell phones are travelling. This will allow us to provide a unique and personalized service to our listeners.

8996 We also recognize that in today's information-based society people expect to get news information when and how they want it. That's why News 102.3 will also have a strong online and multiplatform content. News 102.3 will make its content available on demand using a variety of customizable distribution platforms, including Internet streaming, SMS text messaging, podcasts and audio clip downloads.

8997 News 102.3 will have an extensive Web component that provides listeners with the opportunity to subscribe to features such as breaking news alerts or the latest traffic reports via the Internet or mobile phone.

8998 News 102.3 will also have a dedicated staff responsible for updating its website on a regular basis as news stories and information come into the station.

9002 MR. HINNEN: At Rogers we believe in the all news format. In fact, it was June 7, 1993, 15 years ago this week, that Rogers Broadcasting made the bold move of switching a profitable AM radio station, CFTR, to 680 News. At the time CFTR was a successful Top 40 radio station and was earning around $1 million a year.

9003 It was at that point that Tony Viner, President and CEO of Rogers Media, went to Ted Rogers and said Ted, I have a great idea for you. I know we are profitable but I have this plan to launch an all news station that will lose $3 million next year. He explained our plan for 680 News and Ted said of course, go for it.

9004 Today 680 News is one of Canada's most successful radio stations and has become a template for similar stations around the world. In the last BBM ratings 680 News set a new Canadian ratings record with nearly 1.3 million listeners tuning in each week.

9005 Two and a half years after the launch of 680 News we launched News 1130 in Vancouver. Like Toronto, it took many years for the station to become profitable, but by last year News 1130 had more listeners than any station in Vancouver.

9006 Building on that success, we launched our third all news station in Calgary, 660 News, which has now been operating for just over two years. While not yet profitable, it too is performing according to our projections.

9007 Today Rogers Broadcasting operates seven award winning all news and news talk radio stations across Canada. No broadcaster has more experience at all news than we do. Through years of hard work and considerable investment, Rogers has established unparalleled expertise in this format. In fact, we have been asked by broadcasters from around the world to assist them in developing this format in cities such as London, Moscow and Beijing and many have visited our stations to learn more about how we deliver this format.

9014 The Edmonton radio market is currently served by two information stations. However, their content is derived from essentially the same source. So while Edmonton radio listeners may appear to have a choice of two stations, they are hearing largely the same editorial perspective and content on both. With live 24-hour local programming, News 102.3 will bring a new and independent voice to the radio market and offer a true news alternative to what is currently available to Edmonton radio listeners.

9020 In licensing News 102.3, the Commission will ensure Edmonton has a live, local, 24 hours a day, seven days a week radio station with the largest radio newsroom in the market.

9021 Few broadcasters are willing to sustain the losses required to establish this unique type of service in the community. Rogers has the business acumen, the expertise, the resources and, most importantly, the commitment to make News 102.3 a viable radio service that truly reflect the needs and demands of the people of Edmonton.

9028 We are confident these tangible benefit contributions will have a positive impact on the development of spoken word and journalistic talent.

9029 However, the true value of the benefits of this application is the community service role this station will have in the Edmonton market. No other station will offer the same level of investment and commitment to local programming and community reflection as News 102.3.

9030 MR. SKI: Madam Chair and Members of the Commission, the Edmonton radio market needs the type of live local around-the-clock news service News 102.3 will provide. Our proposal will enhance diversity of voices in the market and balance the editorial perspective currently available to Edmonton radio listeners. We will provide support for community broadcasting and promote the development of young journalistic and spoken word talent.

9031 As a specialty licence, the Commission can be confident that Rogers will adhere to its commitments to this format throughout its licence term. As an FM station, News 102.3 will be accessible on new and portable devices, giving it the ability to reach a larger portion of the population and be of greater value to emergency response services.

9032 News 102.3 will have a minimal impact on incumbent radio stations, given that our projected annual advertising revenues can be accommodated largely within the natural growth of the market. And we have the experience, the resources, the expertise and the commitment to deliver on the promise of this proposal.

9033 As we have done in Vancouver, Calgary and Toronto, Rogers will establish a strong and respected news presence in the community with highly visible local on-air talent, a seasoned professional news staff and experienced local traffic reporters.

9039 COMMISSIONER MOLNAR: Thank you and welcome here this afternoon.

9040 I appreciate your opening remarks. They help me somewhat in what I'm going to frame as my first question to you.

9041 I was looking through your application and I was looking at the financials and, frankly, it is a bit astounding to see what a large investment it takes to operate a news format. Looking at Edmonton and the growth in this market, one of my questions, one of the things that came to me quickly was why would Rogers choose to do news with all the opportunities and all the potential revenues that could be generated in this market?

9042 You know, you can please answer. I see in your opening remarks clearly you are very proud of what you can do with your news program but were there any other reasons why you chose this format?

9043 MR. SKI: Thank you, Commissioner Molnar.

9044 As we said, this particular format is part of the DNA of Rogers. We believe we are the experts, as we said. I won't go over the opening comments.

9045 As someone who is somewhat new to Rogers from another place, I watched from afar and quite admired the fact that they were willing to take a format that was new to Canada and develop it and stay the course for 15 years; I mean, tremendous losses over that time.

9046 So the question is: Why would you do that? There are a couple of reasons.

9047 One is that this is the type of format that is very durable. Yes, you have losses in the first few years, the first several years, depending on how things happen, but at the end of the day, once it becomes profitable, it can become quite profitable if you are willing to stay the course, as I think Rogers has proven that it has done.

9048 The other part of that too is that it is a format where there are some barriers to entry for others if you are successful in it. So unlike a music format that can be changed actually by tomorrow morning, this type of format can't be and it is very difficult for others to duplicate this format. So it is durable over time.

9049 I think the other point is that in the future, as now, we are looking for other platforms to make this more of a multimedia experience for listeners. This type of format gives us content that's not easy to duplicate and from that standpoint it helps to put us in a better position for the future.

9050 So that's why, for all those reasons and a few of the others, that's why we think it is certainly worth the investment.

9051 COMMISSIONER MOLNAR: Thank you for that.

9052 One of the questions that is first and foremost is what is the impact, what do you perceive to be the impact on the incumbent news talk station CHED?

9053 MR. SKI: Commissioner Molnar, it's a different type of radio station. It is a news talk radio station and our experience -- and this particular group has had lots of it and I will have Derek give you an idea of what happens from a revenue standpoint.

9054 But if you look at our -- and I know you have looked at our financials. I think the revenue that we plan in the first year, first couple of years, as we have said, I think will probably be absorbed by market growth to begin with.

9055 The other aspect of this is that by and large past experience shows that no one radio station is hurt that much because it is a different type of format.

9205 COMMISSIONER CUGINI: Thank you, Madam Chair.

9206 Good afternoon.

9207 I really just have one question and that is: Why do you think that this format -- why do you think that this is the best use of an FM frequency?

9208 One of the things we hear is the one thing that is saving AM, for example, is talk. Certainly 680 is on AM and I believe the Calgary station is on AM.

9209 So how is this the best use of an FM frequency in this market?

9210 And you have notes, Mr. Ski, so were you ready for this?

9211 MR. SKI: Even without notes, I have been thinking about this. The notes are just there in case I forget under the bright lights.

9212 Well, I think there are quite a few reasons why FM at this particular point in time. We don't have an AM at the present time for starters. But I think, too, the format costs for all news are cost and labour intensive already.

9213 If you are mounting a new AM radio station, then AM adds another -- could add another four to $5 million in terms of building the infrastructure in order to put an AM signal on the air. That is because of the fact that you have to buy land, you know, and then we are in the business of tall towers and big fields quite frankly, whereas with FM you are one tower. You put your antenna on a tower; you may be sharing it with others.

9214 That is not the case with AM. You are normally dedicated to one particular radio station.

9215 So it takes up our costs maybe another $5 million. Given that the costs are already quite large, it becomes difficult these days to do that.

9216 Second, reach is pretty important, as I mentioned earlier, to us in this particular format and so an FM signal allows us to penetrate buildings better. It allows us to reach more people and obviously attract more potential listeners.

9217 The operating costs would change our business model quite substantially because operating costs on the AM band tend to be twice what they are on FM just because of power consumption.

9218 I think fourthly -- I think I am to four -- it is the future of the format. Obviously when we first launched the all news format it was 15 years ago and at that particular time it was a different point in time and we have been successful, but it took a very long time. We think on FM it will take a shorter amount of time.

9219 There has been a movement in the U.S. for news talk and all news radio stations to move from AM to FM. It allows us to reach -- and this is important for us for the future -- allows us to reach younger listeners, because there is a bit of a social stigma of younger listeners listening to AM radio.

9220 It's a challenge. It's why most news/talk stations tend to target -- well, not necessarily target, they tend to get audiences that are 45-plus. But if you have a similar format on FM, you have an opportunity at least to have those people listen to your station because there is an affinity for them to be at least on the band.

9221 As we say, if they are not in the church, it's very difficult to preach to them. So if they are on the band, then we at least have a shot.

9222 Also, devices now and in the future, iPods, MP3 players, don't have AM radio on them. They have FM radio on them, but not AM radio.

9223 So it puts us in a better position I guess to be successful over time.

9224 I guess for all of those reasons is why we believe FM, at least at this point of time, is better.

9225 COMMISSIONER CUGINI: Thank you for that fulsome answer.

9226 Thank you, Madam Chair.

9227 THE CHAIRPERSON: I have a few questions and I will just pick up on a question that Commissioner Cugini was asking and Commissioner Molnar was asking, as well, and that is with respect to the impact on the Corus news talk radio station.

9228 I was wondering, before Commissioner Cugini started her question, what the advantage was to you being on AM versus Corus.

9229 So having listened now to what you have said, it seems that over time you might have a significant advantage and indeed take more of a share of their market. We have only looked and we traditionally ask for year two impact, but it looks to me like over time you could have a considerable advantage.

9230 Is that correct?

9231 MR. SKI: You are talking about our impact on CHED?

9232 THE CHAIRPERSON: Yes.

9233 MR. SKI: No. We alluded to it earlier and I will have John maybe give you an idea of the differences between a news talk station and maybe the type of station that we are because they are totally different.

9234 In Toronto, for instance, 680 News operates side-by-side with other news talk radio stations in the market. I think there are for now and they all operate within their own individual formats. They are still in the format so obviously we haven't had an impact that would make them change those formats, because we are different. It is a different type of service. People listen to it in a different way.

9235 Maybe John could elaborate on that just a little bit, if you like.

9236 MR. HINNEN: Sure. In Vancouver, another example CKNW, which is Corus' station there, does very well. In fact, it is still the number one station when it comes to audience share in that market. We compete against them and actually I think we complement each other in many ways.

9237 When we launched 680, it was really designed to be everybody's second favourite radio station. People would have their own music station and they would come to us if they required some information, be it traffic, weather, news, whatever it happens to have been. So we have always felt that we complemented each other and we are much different.

9238 CKNW, CFRB and certainly CHED here has long hours tuned. We don't and it is because of the talk programming that they have. We have no talk programming except for the fact that we constantly have news information on the air.

9239 So they are totally different and I think that in many ways we complement all broadcasters, be they talk or music based stations, and in many ways we see that we work with all of them.

9240 THE CHAIRPERSON: So the fact that you are on FM and they are on AM is not any particular impact on Corus. I understand your comments about FM being the future, especially with respect to new devices.

9241 MR. SKI: Right. Certainly. And our audience tends to be slightly younger, in some cases quite a bit younger than audiences to news talk radio stations.

9242 THE CHAIRPERSON: Thank you for all that.

9243 I was just wondering, can you tell me in the Toronto and Vancouver markets, just picking up on your comments and your opening remarks there, how many years it was before you became at least break even, just in relation -- I see here you're talking about year seven.

9244 So I'm wondering what your actual experience was in those two markets.

9245 MR. SKI: John can probably give you those years.

9246 MR. HINNEN: In Toronto it was year five. In Vancouver it took us nine years, partially because it is a slightly smaller market, but also because of the fact that Corus actually launched an all news station against us and actually slowed us down by a couple of years. It took us nine years there.

9247 THE CHAIRPERSON: Calgary, then, I understand it's relatively new in Calgary. I think you said two years.

9248 But are you on track with what you had forecasted and when did you forecast a turnaround in Calgary?

9249 MR. SKI: I'm not sure when we forecasted that. John may know. But we are on track in that particular market, too.

9250 Again, it is a slow build. As we said earlier, it does take us some time. But when I looked at the numbers, we developed our numbers for this particular application based on our experience with all news in other markets.

9251 We know how the business plan works given that experience that we have had and, quite frankly, Toronto, Vancouver, Calgary all sort of looked like this. Toronto happened a little bit earlier than we thought, but by and large they looked very much like this.

9252 We believe, I think, that it could be five years, it could be six years for Calgary. That's the way it looks to us right now.

9253 THE CHAIRPERSON: Again, is there competition in Calgary? You don't consider it quite competition, but is there a news talk format as well in Calgary?

9254 MR. SKI: Yes, there is.

[Corus Entertainment's 770 CHQR - Last Link]

9255 THE CHAIRPERSON: Thank you.

9256 In Vancouver is your news station on FM?

9257 MR. SKI: No, it is not.

9314 THE CHAIRPERSON: Okay, I will keep that in mind.

9315 Commissioner Molnar...?

9316 COMMISSIONER MOLNAR: Thank you. I just have one more question.

9317 It twigged me as the discussion went on about devices and how, you know, not all devices work on AM, and it reminded me of what you said earlier on as to why you are getting into the news broadcasting and that is for the rich content that it creates that you can use over multiple platforms. So that is very exciting.

9318 The one question I had is whether or not that content will be available on a proprietary basis over Rogers distribution platforms or will this be technology agnostic?

9319 MR. SKI: Let me have John explain what we do now in terms of type of content that we use or provide on multi-platforms.

9320 MR. HINNEN: We really think that certainly in the case of the Internet it is a huge part of our platform in terms of making sure that we get information to people wherever they want it and whenever they want it.

9321 Quite frankly to your point, we just put various things on our websites and so that is open to the public at large and it is not specific to Rogers or anything else. But we do think it is important to provide people alternative opportunities to listen to information.

9322 If you take, for example, the traffic reports that we do on our radio stations, we now have it set up that you can listen to the latest traffic report online. So if for some reason you are in your office and you have no access to radio, you can listen to it without having to stream. You can certainly stream as well if that is what you wish to do, but the latest traffic report is separated out.

9323 If, for instance, you happen to be somewhere and you can't reach a radio or for some reason you can't reach some other kind of device, we also have it set up now that you can actually listen to the latest traffic report via SMS text messaging.

9324 So that if you type in "traffic" after you punch in 680, 680, we actually send you the latest audio version of the traffic report that was available. So it gives people more opportunity to listen to a traffic report.

9325 We send information to various many places. We have RSS feeds of our local content that we actually know have -- actually we send to various billboards around the city of Toronto. We also, for instance, provide it to Pizza Pizza, which is a large chain of restaurants. They have a number of TV screens in many of their restaurants now, and as part of their offering they have information about the store, but they also now have a news feed of our local news information that we provide them.

9326 So we're trying to make sure that we keep in touch with our audience no matter wherever they might be.

9327 COMMISSIONER MOLNAR: Thank you.

9335 THE CHAIRPERSON: Thank you.

9346 Mr. Ski, this is your two minutes.

9347 MR. SKI: Thank you very much, Madam Chair.

9348 I think you can tell, I hope, by the excitement from our team here today that we are pretty passionate about the all news format at Rogers and we are anxious to bring our brand of all news to Edmonton.

9349 As I mentioned earlier, I think, it is part of the DNA and it has been for 15 years when Rogers was the architect of Canada's first all news station.

9350 We loved the challenges, I guess, that no one else wants to take on.

9351 If I could, I would like to just review three key factors: one, the quality of our application; two, diversity of news voices in the market; and three, the competitive state of the radio market and the level of market impact.

9352 I will do that briefly, because I think we have covered most of those items today.

9353 First, the quality of our application.

9354 We will be 100 per cent local. Our programs will be entirely spoken word 126 hours per week, 168 if you take the full 24 hours. We will employ 39 new broadcast journalists. We will contribute tangible benefits of $1.5 million above the basic CCD commitment. We will make the most effective use of the 102.3 frequency. We will connect with our audience through multiple touch points on multiple platforms and create a truly integrated communications experience.

9355 Second, diversity of news voices.

9356 We will be the only 24-hour a day, seven day a week news and information service in Edmonton, the only one in a market that has been dominated by one editorial voice for a long time. We are so determined to succeed in this format that we applied for a specialty licence to give you confidence in our commitment. But beyond this, you only need to look at our experience and our determination in the other markets in which we program all news stations to understand that commitment.

[Specialty licences require CRTC approval prior to format switches - Last Link]

9357 Third, the competitive state of the market and the level of market impact.

9358 Edmonton is booming, EBITDA* is high, revenues are increasing faster than any other Canadian market and our format, all news, will have the least effect of the incumbents. In fact, we will grow the market revenue probably more than any other format because we are so different.

[* Earnings before interest, taxes, depreciation and amortization - Last Link]

9359 As I said at the opening, we are passionate about the format and we have been recognized as world leaders in its development. But beyond our list of commitments, the major benefit that we are proposing in the establishment of a radio service like this is that we know the citizens of radio will come to rely on it and it will become an indispensable part of their lives.

9360 Thank you very much. We appreciate your attention and questions today.

9361 THE CHAIRPERSON: Thank you, Mr. Ski and your team.

As part of the hearings process, after all the presentations have been made and intervenors have been heard, applicants are invited back to address questions from the Commission and to respond to issues raised by others applying.

Reply

13828 THE SECRETARY: I would now invite Rogers Broadcasting Limited to come forward to the presentation table.

13829 THE SECRETARY: Could you please reintroduce yourselves for the record and you have ten minutes.

13831 MR. SKI: Thank you.

13832 Madam Chair, Members of the Commission, I am Paul Ski, CEO of Rogers Radio. To my left, your right, is Susan Wheeler, VP of Regulatory Affairs; and to my right Karen Parsons, your left, News Director of 660 News Calgary. Next to Karen is Tom Bedore, General Manager of our Edmonton radio stations.

13833 Thank you again for the opportunity to appear before you this week to present our proposal for an all-news station to serve Edmonton.

13834 We also sincerely want to thank the many interveners who have taken the time to write letters of support for our application and appeared before you this week. Their contribution and interest in this proceeding is evidence of their commitment and want to see a greater choice of news and information programming made available to Edmonton radio listeners – see note.

13835 It is clear from this public support that the people of Edmonton:

13836 (1) are concerned with the concentration of news and information sources currently available to them;

13837 (2) desire a choice of news and information radio stations;

13838 (3) are concerned about the reductions in newsroom staff in Edmonton and across the country; and

13839 (4) believe competition will serve to strengthen the quality of news and information currently available in the Edmonton market.

13840 As Mr. Christopher and other written interveners have noted, the Edmonton radio landscape is dominated by two news and information stations that share a common newsroom. In their view, having another fully staffed newsroom in Edmonton will not only improve the quality of news and information on radio, it will improve the quality of news and information available from all media holdings, television and newspaper.

13841 Our experience supports this view. Our all news stations have proven to actually change the nature of the news environment in all of the markets we serve by raising the bar for news-gathering and reporting among all news outlets. You heard that today from our interveners.

13842 With the largest radio newsroom in the city providing live local and timely news and information 24 hours a day, seven days a week, the only broadcaster who will do that, News 102.3 will offer choice to Edmonton listeners and balance the editorial perspective currently dominated by one large player.

13843 In our view, a community cannot have a surplus of diverse news voices.

13844 The interveners to our application have recognized our unparalleled commitment to this format, a commitment that is currently unmatched in the Edmonton market. We agree that competition will undoubtedly increase the quality of the news product available to Edmonton listeners and will diversify the editorial opinion and perspective currently available.

13845 We are also pleased to see that organizations such as the Alberta emergency management agency, Edmonton's Office of Emergency Preparedness and the Edmonton Fire Rescue Services recognize the inherent value of this type of service to the community, particularly on the FM band. These organizations understand the importance of our proposed enhanced weather and news reporting and understand the role a station like News 102.3 can play in the coverage of emergency situations and other public safety situations.

13846 As noted by Edmonton's Office of Emergency Preparedness and Edmonton Fire Rescue Services, emergencies can strike at any time and without warning, and depending on the type of incident they will need a station like News 102.3 that is live 24 hours a day and available on the FM dial to communicate messages to the public as emergency situations unfold.

13847 Finally, we want to thank the many interveners who commended our efforts to support young, local spoken word and journalistic talent at various levels of their career, including within the community element of the system. Our CCD contributions are aimed at ensuring there continues to be a healthy level of trained professional broadcast journalists available to reflect the diversity of views and opinions held by Canadians in Edmonton and across the country.

13848 We truly believe that active and well resourced news sectors will strengthen public dialogue and encourage citizen engagement to the benefit of all Canadians.

13849 We trust you will agree and recognize our commitment to this type of service.

13850 We thank you for the opportunity to reply to the interventions filed in support of our application. We also wish to thank the staff for their assistance during this week.

13851 We wish you well in your deliberations.

13852 Thank you very much.

13853 THE CHAIRPERSON: Thank you, Mr. Ski.

13854 I do have a matter that I wanted to discuss with you. I'm sure, as you know, that during the course of this proceeding it was brought to our attention that Corus had changed the format of their CHQT Edmonton station from Oldies to All News. We did actually look at their website and found that it was strikingly similar to what you are proposing.

13855 We were surprised that you had not mentioned it when we questioned you on the differences and similarities. So we are wondering when you were aware of the station's format and how it is going to affect your business plan?

13856 MR. SKI: Certainly. We referenced, I guess it's iNews 880 or Corus in our opening remarks when we talked about -- and so did our interveners, I guess -- when we mentioned that -- and they only launched a couple of weeks ago and we only had a chance to listen to them I guess over the last -- well, if it is a couple of weeks, two weeks to find out what the differences were and what the similarities were.

13857 But as we said in our opening remarks, the Edmonton market is currently served by two information services which essentially is what this is, but the content is derived from essentially the same source.

13858 Karen can talk about differences, if you like, but we didn't really find too much of a difference between them and CHED; a lot of the same reporters, a lot of the same newscasts, in particular some of them taped I guess on one station and used on another.

13859 So as a result of that we felt you were hearing largely the same editorial perspective and content on both.

13860 I think one of the interveners talked about it this morning when they mentioned the analogy of two car dealerships; one owner selling the same cars doesn't really add much diversity.

13861 We always expect competition for this particular format. We don't always expect it before we launch, but it happens, the same as tomorrow you could wake up and find that there is a AAA radio station on the air in this particular market. There very well could be.

13862 Competition makes us all better and that is factored into our business plan.

13863 I should say -- and if you are asking, if the question is are we different than they are or will we be different, then we would be happy to answer that too.

13864 You have referenced the website. There are some similarities in their website to what we do. Certain of our people have not missed that fact and will proceed accordingly. But I think what we try to keep in mind when we were going through this is that that could change tomorrow. While they changed to this particular format, it could be different tomorrow.

13865 Our experience is that that may be likely the case. Whether this is a preemptive strike or mischief, I'm not sure, but it happened.

13866 I should mention that I spent quite a bit of time in the Vancouver market and in that particular market Rogers has an all news radio station and Corus, who owns CHED, which is the number one radio station in the market, and also owned CKNW in the Vancouver market, decided to change to an all news station on one of their AM radio stations there.

13867 They called it NW2. It was sort of I guess a repurposed content that was being used from one station to another, much like here. They lasted in that format I think for the year.

13868 My timing may be off a little bit. I lived through it but didn't pay that much attention to it other than to know that they were in and out of the format.

13869 I think the same thing may have happened in Montreal; otherwise they don't have any all news stations across the country.

13870 So whether they will stay in the format or not, who knows. It wasn't an issue for us because we believe that you can't have too many obviously diverse news voices, as we have said, and quite frankly, if you license us for an all news station the residents of Edmonton may have one all news station or they may have two, but very different.

13871 I can talk to you about that if you like in terms of demo and in terms of the differences which Karen can provide for you.

13872 If you decide not to license Rogers for an all news station, Edmonton might have one news station or more than likely none at all.

13873 So like I say, we recognized it and referred to it in our opening comments, but it was a bit of a non-issue because, as I say, we expect there will be competition, not always before you launch.

13874 THE CHAIRPERSON: If I could say, I do recall that comment. We just were not aware that they had done that, the change in format, and so we didn't associate with that.

13875 But I do recall you saying that.

13876 Your projections would have been submitted to the Commission some time ago and so at that point you wouldn't have been anticipating -- or maybe you were anticipating that somebody might do such a thing.

13877 MR. SKI: No. As I say, we normally factor into our projections that we will have a competitor at some time down the road.

13878 THE CHAIRPERSON: In the very same format?

13879 MR. SKI: Well, again, in a format that may be peripherally the same, as is this. This isn't the same format since it is, as we said, essentially repurposed information as it was to a great degree in Vancouver.

13880 We didn't talk too much I don't think about audience composition yesterday of CHED, but if you look at each of the markets -- and I have some of the numbers here. If you look at the markets, by a large our audience is a 25-to-54 for the all news format; newstalk and some of the other things that they are doing.

13881 Our audience share, if I can remember without thumbing through to look at the numbers, is about 50 per cent in that particular demographic 25-to-54. Sometimes it is a little bit higher than that and normally in news talk station, CHED or some of the other stations they have put on that have been similar to their news talk stations, normally the audience 25-to-54 is in the 30 per cent range.

13882 It tends to be a much older audience, normally 55-plus or 54, 55-plus. So it is a very different audience than what tunes in for an all news station.

13883 THE CHAIRPERSON: I will take you up on your offer, though, to review for us the differences if you would like. I think it would be good having it on the record for when we do our deliberations.

13884 So if you want to take a few minutes to do that, we have the time.

13885 MR. SKI: Sure. Thank you.

13886 Actually if we break it down and try to chunk it down so that it is maybe easy to understand -- and we understand it is hard to understand all the nuances between various formats and we will do our best.

13887 I think it gets to maybe three things: content, context and commitment.

13888 I have talked a little bit about commitment and we talked about commitment over the last couple of days, and so I won't go over that too much more, other than you know that as a specialty licence and given our track record in this format, we are in it for the long haul. It is part of our culture.

13889 I will ask Karen to talk about the content and the context of our station vis-à-vis the others.

13890 MS PARSONS: I understand your concerns about having the same format, same structure. I mean, they launched a station two weeks ago that has almost identical format to the one we are proposing.

13891 I think that in terms of content what you will find, we are planning to launch a 24-hour a day live radio station for one thing.

13892 And in terms of context, what we do -- and I have been in this format now for 13 years -- is reporter driven as opposed to anchor driven. So you will find there are a lot of similarities between the two stations that you were talking about right now, CHED and iNews. The same reporters are reporting. In some cases -- I'm not sure if you are familiar with the term voicers, but reporters that file 40-second reports, and they will be exactly the same report that airs on one station and the other.

13893 I'm not sure that down the road Edmontonians are going to find any difference between the two of these stations when they listen.

13894 What we will be providing is a slightly different editorial voice in terms of we put a lot of reporters, as you have noticed in our submission, on the streets in every city.

13895 I worked in Toronto. When we had our morning show there, we launched with several reporters on the street, very unusual even in that market, that size of market, and there were no other reporters from any other radio station live in the morning drive at that point in time. And it wasn't long after that that the other stations, one of whom I had worked for prior to going to 680 News, also started putting reporters on the street.

13896 The same thing happened when I launched the station in Calgary. There were no live reporters on the streets in the morning show, anywhere in the market at the time. The other two news stations have now put reporters live on the streets.

13897 What I think happens is that the quality of the news reporting for the community is improved when you have reporters out there digging out stories as opposed anchors who are delivering news that comes to them.

13898 So I think that the phrase goes something like "the rising tide floats all boats". When we have appeared in those markets, the quality of the news has improved a great deal as a result of our reporter driven.

13899 I can't get into any of the secrets editorially, but we have a different perspective on news and I think that as a result of that, we super serve the local communities that we are in and I think that would be true here in Edmonton as well.

13900 So I hope that helps.

13901 THE CHAIRPERSON: That is very helpful. They will have more flexibility than you will because you have asked for specialty licence.

[Specialty licences require CRTC approval prior to format switches - Last Link]

13902 So with that in mind, I take it that you still feel there is sustainable demand for both stations in this market, or three stations if they were to keep that format going.

13903 You were not intimidated by that?

13904 MR. SKI: No, not at all. I think you can tell from Karen --

13905 MS PARSONS: No.

13906 MR. SKI: -- that she is not too intimidated by most things.

13907 But in most markets that are this size they were normally three to four news talk, all news or various derivations of this particular type of format. Toronto is a good example of that and so is Calgary and Vancouver, the markets that we are involved in.

13908 THE CHAIRPERSON: So I don't have to ask you if it's the best use of the frequency, then?

13909 MR. SKI: No. Well, yes, you can, and I would be happy to --

13910 THE CHAIRPERSON: I think I know the answer.

13911 MR. SKI: I would be happy to answer that, maybe in two ways.

13912 Also, the first question was related to the fact that they have more flexibility.

13913 That is correct and I think they could be -- as they were Oldies before, they could be Oldies tomorrow. We don't know that.

13914 The one thing that you can be pretty certain of is that if we are licensed, we will have a radio station that is 100 per cent spoken word, 100 per cent local 24/7 in this market. Again, that is what we do.

13915 So you are right, we can change, we don't want to change. We hope that you have recognized our passion and the fact that we believe that this could be a good format.

13916 I think again, we believe it is the best use of the frequency for a number of reasons.

13917 Before I make a few comments on that, if you look at our particular format for spoken word or for all news and compare it with others that are in similar formats, as Karen has, it is not really that different than the consideration of licensing a AAA station or an Adult Alternative station.

13918 The big difference is Corus who owns CHED, which has a 13.3 share and its second most popular station in the market, CISN, and I believe the third or fourth most popular station in the market, giving them a pretty large share of that 33 per cent.

13919 We expect not to take that big of a share. So they are in pretty good shape. They can leverage a lot of dollars out of that. We were talking the other day with Commissioner Molnar about dollars in the market and to have 34 per cent market share audience-wise, if you leverage that into what it means in revenue in an $82 million or $85 million market, that is around $34 million.

13920 If you take 32 or 33 per cent of that, you come in around $32 million.

13921 So if it's $32 million, approximately, and we're looking at one million, $1.2 million, certainly in our first year that is about 1/30th or somewhere in there of what they are able to get in terms of the market.

13922 So it is a little easier for them to compete than it may be for the number eight ranked station in a market that is a stand-alone, which happens to be our Modern Rock station SONiC, which will compete or will have to compete against one of these radio stations if you decide to license a AAA or an Adult Alternative station. They will compete on the upper end of our audience. So it will mean that our station will have to focus more on the younger audience.

13923 Right now it is a little broader. It can be more 18-to-34, but I think, as most people have said, most applicants have said, they are a particular format and AAA will be 25-to-44 in that range. So it will hurt the upper edge of SONiC, no doubt.

13924 In terms of the best use of the frequency, we believe that because we are adding diversity to the market, because we are offering something that is not available in the form that we are talking about, may not be available in the future, we know that.

13925 And if I could, there has been some discussion about the frequency. I am not an engineer but I have felt like one over the last couple of weeks while we have been learning more and more about third adjacencies in the market. And although Industry Canada permits them, they can cause unexpected interference.

13930 THE CHAIRPERSON: We will leave the technical questions for the people at head office --

13931 MR. SKI: Thank you very much.

13932 THE CHAIRPERSON: -- for further explanation anyway.

13933 MR. SKI: I appreciate that.

13934 THE CHAIRPERSON: Yes. Thank you.

13935 Any more questions? No.

13936 Thank you very much. We appreciate that and your team.

13937 MR. SKI: Thank you.

The CRTC decision regarding new FM licencing in Edmonton was expected in the fall of 2008.

On June 5th, 2008 Paul Ski, Chief Executive Officer of Rogers Radio, was asked by the Last Link to confirm rumours that Rogers had engaged in legal action and had issued a cease and desist order against Corus Entertainment with regard to the use of Rogers trademarks and programming elements – see newswheel and green with envy.

Ski offered a polite "no comment" but did say that Rogers preferred to "take the high road" in such matters.

Disclosure notices: the author of this web site submitted a letter to the CRTC in support of the Rogers application.

The author feels that diversity in editorial policy is essential to the sustained vitality of responsible journalism, and support for the Rogers application is consistent with the opinions expressed elsewhere on this web site – return to transcript.

Also, in April 2008, Corus Entertainment issued a cease and desist order directed toward this web site, demanding that all Corus Entertainment images and trademarks be removed from the Last Link on the Left.

Related Last Link Pages

radio - edmonton radio news 2008 - Rogers answers back